My guest on this episode of the podcast is Princeton sociologist Shamus Rahman Kahn, who is the author of a number of books, most notably for our purposes Privilege: The Making of an Adolescent Elite at St. Paul’s School.
I described the book, in a previous post, thusly:
Privilege is an extraordinary book. People throw that word around too easily, but I really mean it in this case. It blew my mind in a way that it hadn’t been blown in a long while. Khan is a very good writer of sentences, an insightful theorist, and perhaps above all an observer of rare acuity. He just sees a lot more, and a lot more clearly, than most people would in a similar context, even if they went in with similarly ethnographic objectives. The result is a book packed with striking insight and fascinating detail. As it happens I went to a high school that wasn’t too different from St. Paul’s. It wasn’t as fancy, didn’t cater to quite as many sons and daughters of the high elite, but it was similar enough for me to vouch for Khan’s descriptions. They ring true. He captures with nuance what such places, which are so easy to caricature, are actually like.
The post that I wrote about Privilege was by far the most popular thing I’ve written for this newsletter, which is a testament to my own eloquence, to the fascination of the subject, and to the intensity and insight with which Kahn explored it.
Shamus and I had a great conversation. We talked about the book; his experience as both a student and a teacher at St. Paul’s School; his training at the University of Wisconsin; his good timing in the selection of subjects; what it feels like to be of the elite; and much more.
Show breakdown (according to AI - I have no idea how closely this tracks the reality, but it feels better than nothing)
00:00 Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
01:07 Discussing the Book 'Privilege'
02:44 Exploring Elite Education and Inequality
04:35 The Role of Quantitative and Qualitative Research
17:21 Personal Background and Experience at St. Paul's
30:21 Changes in Elite Education Over Time
46:55 The Origins of Meritocracy
48:40 Challenges of Meritocracy
49:18 Meritocracy and Social Mobility
51:40 Ethnographic Insights on Privilege
52:57 Understanding Inequality
56:32 The Role of Education in Inequality
57:08 Class and Political Mobilization
01:01:37 American Inequality and Historical Perspectives
01:02:25 The Astor Family and American Finance
01:09:07 The Influence of Wealth in Politics
01:15:54 Navigating Elite Institutions
01:17:44 The Future of Elite Coordination
01:26:22 Concluding Thoughts on Elites and Power
01:29:27 Closing Remarks and Outro
On Privilege